Dec 4, 2015 - Share on Twitter. Scientists Seek .... mutational causes with a budget equivalent to that of NASA ~ 20 billion by using a variation of President.
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Ferez Soli Nallaseth, M.S., Ph.D. Principal Inv. Life Sciences InsNJ; Member-Comp Biol Sys Alliance; Analyst/Coach Nexus:Squash&Neuroscien; Mentor - AAT Edit postView stats
Asilomar re-visited! The debate on the nonissue that is CrispR/Cas9 & why it detracts from the basic obligations of Humankind! Dec 4, 2015
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Scientists Seek Moratorium on Edits to Human Genome That Could Be Inherited By NICHOLAS WADE Susan Walsh/Associated Press.David Baltimore, former president of the California Institute of Technology, helped organize an international group of scientists to discuss use of the CrisprCas9 technique on human genes.Credit Susan Walsh/Associated Press
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/04/science/crispr-cas9-human-genome-editingmoratorium.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=storyheading&module=second-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
Let’s Talk Human Engineering Experts continue to discuss the logistics and ethical considerations of editing human genomes at a historic meeting in Washington, DC. http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/44686/title/Let-s-Talk-HumanEngineering/#post127539 Ferez S. Nallaseth, MS, PhD comment:
The CrispoR/Cas9 concern is a non-issue! It is rendered so by the collection of contemporary debates on similar issues in the Physical and Life Sciences, the record of Humankind in dealing with all the positive and negative dimensions of the historical progression of civilization and the many evolutionary answers to these issues that have always existed! Not only does the current biotechnolgy revolution, but also such things as mitochondrial and chloroplast biogenesis, Dr. Barbara MccLintock's mobile eukaryotic genome, trans species integrants of Azotobacter plasmids and Circulating Tumor DNAs in humans have reduced the similar concerns of Recombinant DNA expressed at Asilomar to superstitions. The continuing CrispR/Cas9 debate distracts from the historical obligations of Humankind to those millions, who with an errant turn of the genetic dice will come down with intractable diseases. Diseases with pathologies that have consequences worse than those inflicted by Death Camps and that cost hundreds of trillions of dollars per annum - in perpetuity! Because all of these contemporary methods, including OMICs (CrispR/Cas9) and Stem cell therapies, are retrospective therapeutic interventions they are not preemptive of the mutational causes of diseases states, will not stop new cases from arising and do not go far enough! These preemptive therapies can be developed by systematizing and controlling the networks of genes maintaining the Human genome through a combination of Evolutionary and Mouse Genetics with OMICs. The Crispr/Cas9 debate distracts from the primary obligation of Humankind to ameliorate the condition of those millions who will come down with cancers, neurodegenerative and developmental diseases - for which immune based methods are only a distant hope that have yet to emerge from the the great Evolutionary Adaptabilities that are put in conflict! Again they will do nothing to prevent new cases! All of the concerns of this meeting have been as reasonably met in History as is possible! The participants should set aside this very public Angst and concentrate their efforts on the more immediate necessities! They will find that their concerns have been addressed before in the links that are copied below. Respectfully yours, Ferez S. Nallaseth, MS, PhD (1) Do we want this - gene editing on human embryos? Do we have the right to deny recourse? https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/do-we-want-gene-editing-human-embryos-have-right-nallasethph-d-?trk=mp-reader-card (2) Allelic variation - CrispR-Cas9 Vs genocide: concerns balanced with human costs! https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/allelic-variation-crispr-cas9-vs-genocide-concerns-nallaseth-phd-?trk=mp-reader-card
(3) Darwin could not possibly have known! 140 years on we do and can! Ferez Pharmaceutical companies are abandoning Small molecule drugs and moving into Large molecule drugs. Unfortunately these new lines of drugs are so costly the average person
is never going to be able to afford them, and they will probably bankrupt the Health Care System. A treatment for Hepatitis C does exist, however it costs $84,000 for the treatment. Who is going to be able to afford that? How long will the healthcare system be able to afford to pay for such? Genome Therapy treatment costs about $1,000,000. Sure we can all afford that. The problem is there typically is no thought given, until the whole system is on the verge of collapse. The pharmaceutical industry never thought much about Patent Expirations, until their blockbuster drug start going off patent, and that was the end of their gold rush. Lipitor was 25% of Pfizer's business once was an $18-$24 billion dollar a year drug. These are the reasons they are moving into much more complex molecule drugs. The cost is not going to be cheap. And the manufacturing facilities can typically cost 2 billion dollars, and the cost to get these drugs developed in through the FDA can cost even more. o Like o Reply 3 days ago
Ferez Soli Nallaseth, M.S., Ph.D. AUTHOR YOU Principal Inv. Life Sciences InsNJ; Member-Comp Biol Sys Alliance; Analyst/Coach Nexus:Squash&Neuroscien; Mentor - AAT (1) Response to Mr. Bert Robinson Mr. Robinson, It is clear that you have not bothered to read either our posts or the cost benefit ratios presented in them! From several sources, a conservative estimate of current expenditures is of hundreds of trillions of dollars per annum to manage pathologies (& only partially effectively) in perpetuity! This versus the costs for the equivalent of a Mammalian Institute (s) to preempt their mutational causes with a budget equivalent to that of NASA ~ 20 billion by using a variation of President Obama's Budgetary Rescue of Detroit. You are thinking within the box of largely venal commercial undertakings. There are mechanisms to break out of this vicious cycle of recurrent & intractable disease-costs-economic burden- human devastation centered around a willful abdication of our collective responsibilities! But to do that you first have to open up, understand the Science, know the literature, understand that all things in civilization were progressive, that benefited us, and that there is room for both, work that will manifest results here and now as well as way into the future e.g. as in exploring space! Most of all this irrational insistence on (1) exclusively managing pathological consequences of diseases which will someday and somehow allow their preemption, (2) every method that is old being necessarily passe with everything that is new being a panacea, despite the evidence to the contrary! OMICs is little more than a catalog of mutations with some reagent benefits & OMICs & Stem cells both act retrospectively at
best and do nothing to prvent future cases!) (3) ignoring the findings over ~100 years, of evolutionary and mouse geneticists, biochemists showing the feasibility of the methods we and others promote in Natural Hybrid Zones (NHZs) of mice, (4) expecting specific predictions from this combinatorial approach without a threshold of concepts technologies and results e.g controlling networks that control the maintenance of BRCA1. All the current methods e.g. controlling gene regulation and epigenome regulation would only be sufficient for preempting mutations AFTER the networks were systematized AND controlled, (5) on Phenotypes for detecting mutations in NHZs by these combinatorial methods despite the Spectrum of High Frequency Serendipitous Subversions of Chromosome Biology (SHFSSCB) while ignoring it for Next Generation Sequencing (NGS)! And as a corollary ignoring the threshold of results and concepts that eventually revealed the many explanations for that lack of phenotypes! (6) current methods are sufficiently, with the hope e.g. that immuno-oncology escaping the Evolutionary Adaptability of the cancer cell despite 40 years of similarly specific methods failing or not inducing unforseen and irreversible effects in AD! (7) current methods are mutually exclusive and can be as preemptive or comprehensive or as the systematization and control of chromosome/genome biology with the combinatorial methods of evolutionary and mouse genetics with OMICs in the SHFSSCB in NHZ, (7) budgets are unaffordable when the contrary is known to be true, (8) that what we suggest could not deal with either beneficial adaptations or exclude Cosmetic Eugenics! These are all disingenuous and specious assertions that mandate a forceful response and expungement from a self centered set of leaders! Given the ineffective responses of the Biomedical community to the interrrelated Global Health, Economic and Human Crises as well as the ruthlessness of those concerned (with whom I have first hand experience!) I simply refuse to believe that these are genuine concerns!!!! Finally, this conversation engages the Public Interest and does not belong hidden in the Private messaging section which is why it will be sent to my latest post. Ferez S. Nallaseth, MS, PhD o o
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3 days ago
Ferez Soli Nallaseth, M.S., Ph.D. AUTHOR YOU Principal Inv. Life Sciences InsNJ; Member-Comp Biol Sys Alliance; Analyst/Coach Nexus:Squash&Neuroscien; Mentor - AAT Thanks everyone!
o o
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4 days ago
Expert panel approves human gene editing https://student.societyforscience.org/article/expert-panel-approves-human-geneediting?utm_source=Society+for+Science+Newsletters&utm_campaign=46dd980530Latest_From_SNS&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a4c415a67f-46dd980530-104520393
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Ferez Soli Nallaseth, M.S., Ph.D. AUTHOR YOU Principal Inv. Life Sciences InsNJ; Member-Comp Biol Sys Alliance; Analyst/Coach Nexus:Squash&Neuroscien; Mentor - AAT (2) Previous exchange with Mr. Bert Robinson Bert, There is nothing in this that adds to the discussion! Regards, Ferez S. Nallaseth, PhD 10:36 AM Ferez, It is about utilizing existing controversial drugs for treating diseases, and nontraditional methods. 10:40 AM There is such a thing as foresight! Which is what those who preceded us had and why we enjoy all the liberties - biological, health, physical and sociopolitical that we do! It seems to elude the 'Wise and Learned' Powers that there is absolutely nothing that is mutually exclusive in fostering those directions for the future while retaining the options of 'me and mine' and the 'here and now'. As we had exhausted this discussion long ago your persistence is mystifying! Ferez S. Nallaseth, MS, PhD 10:59 AM Ferez - Pharmaceutical companies are abandoning Small molecule drugs and moving into Large molecule drugs. Unfortunately these new lines of drugs are so costly the average person is never going to be able to afford them, and they will probably bankrupt the Health Care System. A
treatment for Hepatitis C does exist, however it costs $84,000 for the treatment. Who is going to be able to afford that? How long will the healthcare system be able to afford to pay for such? Genome Therapy treatment costs about $1,000,000. Sure we can all afford that. The problem is there typically is no thought given, until the whole system is on the verge of collapse. The pharmaceutical industry never thought much about Patent Expirations, until their blockbuster drug start going off patent, and that was the end of their gold rush. Lipitor was 25% of Pfizer's business once was an $18-$24 billion dollar a year drug. These are the reasons they are moving into much more complex molecule drugs. The cost is not going to be cheap. And the manufacturing facilities can typically cost 2 billion dollars, and the cost to get these drugs developed in through the FDA can cost even more. o o
Like Reply
3 days ago
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Ferez - Pharmaceutical companies are abandoning Small molecule drugs and moving into Large molecule drugs. Unfortunately these new lines of drugs are so costly the average person is never going to be able to afford them, and they will probably bankrupt the Health Care System. A treatment for Hepatitis C does exist, however it costs $84,000 for the treatment. Who is going to be able to afford that? How long will the healthcare system be able to afford to pay for such? Genome Therapy treatment costs about $1,000,000. Sure we can all afford that. The problem is there typically is no thought given, until the whole system is on the verge of collapse. The pharmaceutical industry never thought much about Patent Expirations, until their blockbuster drug start going off patent, and that was the end of their gold rush. Lipitor was 25% of Pfizer's business once was an $18-$24 billion dollar a year drug. These are the reasons they are moving into much more complex molecule drugs. The cost is not going to be cheap. And the manufacturing facilities can typically cost 2 billion dollars, and the cost to get these drugs developed in through the FDA can cost even more. o Like o Reply 3 days ago
Ferez Soli Nallaseth, M.S., Ph.D. AUTHOR YOU Principal Inv. Life Sciences InsNJ; Member-Comp Biol Sys Alliance; Analyst/Coach Nexus:Squash&Neuroscien; Mentor - AAT (1) Response to Mr. Bert Robinson Mr. Robinson, It is clear that you have not bothered to read either our posts or the cost benefit ratios presented in them! From several sources, a conservative estimate of current expenditures is of hundreds of trillions of dollars per annum to manage pathologies (& only partially effectively) in perpetuity! This versus the costs for the equivalent of a Mammalian Institute (s) to preempt their mutational causes with a budget equivalent to that of NASA ~ 20 billion by using a variation of President Obama's Budgetary Rescue of Detroit. You are thinking within the box of largely venal commercial undertakings. There are mechanisms to break out of this vicious cycle of recurrent & intractable disease-costs-economic burden- human devastation centered around a willful abdication of our collective responsibilities! But to do that you first have to open up, understand the Science, know the literature, understand that all things in civilization were progressive, that benefited us, and that there is room for both, work that will manifest results here and now as well as way into the future e.g. as in exploring space! Most of all this irrational insistence on (1) exclusively managing pathological consequences of diseases which will someday and somehow allow their preemption, (2) every method that is old being necessarily passe with everything that is new being a panacea, despite the evidence to the contrary! OMICs is little more than a catalog of mutations with some reagent benefits & OMICs & Stem cells both act retrospectively at best and do nothing to prvent future cases!) (3) ignoring the findings over ~100 years, of evolutionary and mouse geneticists, biochemists showing the feasibility of the methods we and others promote in Natural Hybrid Zones (NHZs) of mice, (4) expecting specific predictions from this combinatorial approach without a threshold of concepts technologies and results e.g controlling networks that control the maintenance of BRCA1. All the current methods e.g. controlling gene regulation and epigenome regulation would only be sufficient for preempting mutations AFTER the networks were systematized AND controlled, (5) on Phenotypes for detecting mutations in NHZs by these combinatorial methods despite the Spectrum of High Frequency Serendipitous Subversions of Chromosome Biology (SHFSSCB) while ignoring it for Next Generation Sequencing (NGS)! And as a corollary ignoring the threshold of results and concepts that eventually revealed the many explanations for that lack of phenotypes! (6) current methods are sufficiently, with the hope e.g. that immuno-oncology escaping the Evolutionary Adaptability of the cancer cell despite 40 years of similarly specific methods failing or not inducing unforseen and irreversible effects in AD! (7) current methods are mutually exclusive and can be as preemptive or comprehensive or as the systematization and control of chromosome/genome biology with the combinatorial methods of evolutionary and mouse genetics with OMICs in the SHFSSCB in NHZ, (7) budgets are unaffordable when the contrary is known to be true, (8) that what we suggest could not deal with either beneficial adaptations or exclude Cosmetic Eugenics! These are all disingenuous and specious assertions that mandate a forceful response and expungement from a self centered set of leaders! Given the ineffective responses of the Biomedical community to the interrrelated Global Health, Economic and Human Crises
as well as the ruthlessness of those concerned (with whom I have first hand experience!) I simply refuse to believe that these are genuine concerns!!!! Finally, this conversation engages the Public Interest and does not belong hidden in the Private messaging section which is why it will be sent to my latest post. Ferez S. Nallaseth, MS, PhD o o
Like Reply
3 days ago
Ferez Soli Nallaseth, M.S., Ph.D. AUTHOR YOU Principal Inv. Life Sciences InsNJ; Member-Comp Biol Sys Alliance; Analyst/Coach Nexus:Squash&Neuroscien; Mentor - AAT Thanks everyone! o o
Like Reply
4 days ago
